Category: Parent Talk
I am so exasperated.
Here's the deal.
My son started 3rd grade this year. He has always been exceptionally good at school, making 95 and above on his report cards in every subject. This year he was admited to the Tallanted and Gifted program. This is a one-day per week program that he is really enjoying.
However, he is not working at his full potential in his regular class work. I think he'll get a B in math for the first grading period; I'll find out on Thursday. The frustrating thing is, he knows the content; he's just working too quickly and making stupid errors. At home when he does his homework, we sit with him and listen to what he does and we go over it with him. When prompted to take the time necessary to make sure he's getting everything right, he does so. In school though, it's a different story. He failed a math test but when the teacher went over it with him problem by problem, he knew every single one. He got a 100 on the word list part of his spellingtest but an 80 on the sentence writing part all because he forgot to put periods at the end of his sentences. Seriously? How do you forget to punctuate! It's careless mistakes made by rushing through his work and I don't know how to help him.
We talked with him on sunday night about needing to be more careful in his work and told him that if his grades fall too much, they will take him out of the TAG program. He said the next morning that he had a nightmare about getting pulled from TAG. Sheesh, so now I feel like I caused him additional stress by telling him that but he needs to understand why its so important for him to demonstrate his understanding of content by the quality of the work that he submits.
I wouldn't give a flying flip if he got c's in every subject so long as he was doing his best. It's the fact of his grades falling because of carelessness that is stressing me out.
I guess it's a good thing in a way that we're having these problems now rather than when he's in highschool and grades will be monitored for colege but still. GRRR.
He's so concerned about being first in everything. Well, he's about to be the first at getting his video games taken away. I think that'll make a ginormous impression because I mean having them taken away for an entire 6-weeks. No screens what so ever, not even at friends' houses. Does that seem harsh? I don't want to over react and cause a rebellion based on the hmph, I'll show you mentality, but at the same time, I think that would really get his attention. Besides, the screens could be part of the problem. I hate screens, unless of course they're mine. But then again, I'm the mom. lol
The teacher only assigns one page of homework per week so I'm thinking about finding additional work for him to do. I'm not sure if I want to go the worksheet rout or have him do book reports and extra math problems. There are lots of learning math websites that he could go to but in order to make them fun for the kids, many are race type games which would pretty much defeat our purpose of making himm slow down.
Ok, this got a little long. For those of you with school aged kids, if you've had this problem, what worked and what didn't?
On a positive note, I just spoke with the TAG teacher and she said that my son is not demonstrating any of this sloppy work in TAG class. She said he's actually doing very very well.
I'm going to ask him tonight with whom he sits in class. Perhaps he's with a group of friends and thus not focusing on his work.
We'll see.
I'm not a parent, but I have been a kid who didn't work up to their potential. That phrase alone leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Please don't overuse it in your son's presence. It can translate to, I'm not working up to my potential, I must be a bad person. It's the way teachers say it as if it's some kind of disease, and parents say it in anger, that does it. There's bound to be a reason for it, even if your son won't admit it. I know I didn't, because my parents expected straight A's and nothing else, but I know for me it was a combination of things. Any of these things may or may not apply to your son.
For one thing, I was being bullied constantly when I was in elementary school. I was the only blind person in a tiny school where the teachers didn't know what the hell they were doing, and at times they let kids throw stuff at me and take things to fuck with me, even though they were standing right there. Understandably, my grades suffered for that. Then there was the simple fact that the teachers didn't know how to show me certain visual concepts, so I fell seriously behind in math and science. I also believe that I was suffering from depression, though no one believed that at the time since kids weren't supposed to be able to know what depression was, and being about your son's age, I didn't really have the means to express or understand it. You have to be so careful though nowadays with knowing whether your child has a mental health problem, though. Evaluate if any of his other behavior has changed, and if you're truly concerned, do some research, talk to him. But do not, I repeat, do not, ask the school if they have noticed any problems, or take him to a doctor if you're not reasonably sure. Schools get a certain percentage of money for every mentally ill child they have, so they're going to push for your child to be medicated, and unless it's truly necessary, you don't want to even place one foot on that battlefield. It's a nightmare, and Google searching it should get you some more eloquently written results that I could probably write a novel about myself, lol.
However, based on what you've said, that doesn't sound like the problem. It sounds like perhaps his regular classes are boring him. If he enjoys the gifted program, and only slacks off in regular classes, it may be a simple matter of disinterest. You should try to ask him how he feels when he's sitting in class. If he's feeling that the work is too easy, he probably wont be motivated to do it. That would be a reason to go to his teachers and try to come up with something that he might find more stimulating. Then, if nothing can be done or if he still finds the work boring, gently try to explain to him that in life, there are things that you just have to deal with, even if you don't enjoy them. that concept may be a little advanced for a third grader, but he's smart, so try to put it on a level he understands.
To summarize, just make sure he knows you love him and that he can talk to you about his problems with school if he's having them. Whether it's bullying, the work being too easy, or something I may not have even thought of, if you care about his well-being, he knows it and will probably talk to you, even if he's reluctant at first. Just don't come off as mad and frustrated, and don't ground him for anything he says. A defensive parent makes for a defensive child who shuts down and won't tell you anything. Trust me, I've been there. My parents weren't very supportive, so I'm glad you're trying to get to the bottom of this problem. I wish you good luck and I hope I've helped. As I said, I may not be a parent, but I've been on the other side of the fence, and not so terribly long ago, either. I hope I'm not sounding like I know everything, because I certainly don't.
SS, thanks very much for your input and perspective.
I like the idea of asking him what he's feeling or thinking about during class while he's doing his work.
Fortunately, no one is going down the mental illness rout so that's a good thing. Like you, I suffered from depression and anxiety beginning around age 12 and I know it affected my school work so I know exactly where you're coming from there.
Munchkin is about to be home so I gotta jet for now but wanted to say a quick thanks.
I suffered from that as well. There is no quick cure for this so called getting back on track stuff. Just try to keep those lines of communication open between you and your son.
I was in almost the exact situation as you've described DG. I was the kid who was accepted to the TAG program and I didn't really care to be in my regular classes after that.
There's nothing wrong with your son. He's just a really smart kid by the sound of it, and he's being bored to death with his regular classes--Can you blame him? Most regular school corriculums cater to the average student, or even to those who can't grasp the most basic concepts. He's writing his sentences without punctuating them because he just wants the work that he's assigned to be done and over with. When you're a kid and you're bored, you want to just slap together your work and then daydream of the moment you get to participate in something at your own level again. Too bad they dont' have honors classes for third graders. At least they didn't when I was in grammar school.
Could you possibly investigate a program or even a different school that could cater to his needs better? He can learn things quicker and will absorb more if he's taught in a creative, faster-paced environment. Maybe the regular school program just isn't equipped with the resources to teach your sun, who is no doubt above average intellectually, in a way that he could respect and be interested in.
It's counterproductive to make a kid sit through a boring class if the boredom is caused by the child's higher level of intellect. Before you know it, grades will fall like hailstones and with it will go his motivation to succeed in school. Of course, that could also illiminate the TAG program, as you mentioned. it's dangerous for a smart kid to go down that rout, because the worse thing is when he ceases to be motivated.
Like I said, see if you can get him into a more advanced class, or if possible, enroll him in a private school with a higher level corriculum. Sometimes, if a child is intellectually gifted enough, these schools provide scholarships for them to attend if they're family can't afford to send them their. I know it may seem like an extreme solution--enrollment in another school--but sometimes the measures that seem extreme are the right ones. Look into it at least, if possible.
Hi there Write Away.
Thanks for your response. I appreciate your perspective and suggestions.
I think you could be right that allot of this is due to bordem. It'd be great if they had honors classes for elementary students. Who would have thought that having a smart kiddo would be so challenging? lol
As far as another school goes, that's not really an option right now. We moved to our current location last year to get him into this school. As far as public schools go, this one is the best in our area and it is truly a very good school. Financially and transportationally, private school isn't an option right now. We looked into some private scools before moving here because where we were living was allot more accessible for us with regard to mobility. That was the trade off with getting our son into better schools, we lost access to public transportation. That's another story that I wined about in another post. lol Anyway, even with the scholarships, the tuition was about 15 thousand per year. That's just out of our reach.
As hard as it will be for him, he's going to have to learn to manage in many different kinds of situations, even the boring ones. Unfortunately for all of us who are very easily bored, that's just part of life. It will be important for him in whatever life path he chooses to be able to be thorough in his work. I think that if it's a bordem issue, we'll get through it one way or the other. I still think I'd rather be dealing with this issue than an issue of him not understanding what he's learning so I guess I should count my blessings.
In talking with my mom about this, she pointed out something that I really hadn't even considered. This current lack of attention may have been partly due to some stresses going on at home with the return of my guide dog for a career change. My son took that pretty hard so perhaps he went through a little depression or distraction or something.
I thought report cards came out this week but I was wrong. This is the last week of the grading period so maybe we've caught the problem in time for his grades to improve. His work has been better over the past couple of days so perhaps he just needed a little wake up call. We shall see.
Thanks again to everyone for your thoughtfulness. I'll keep yall posted.
Part of my issue was bordom. I was always ahead of my classmates and I just screwed around?
I'll just add one thing here, it's taken me a while to ponder this one:
It seems lots of times we parents get stuck thinking our kids won't listen to us, and then they turn around and get the exact information "that we've been *trying* to tell them" from another adult: an uncle or aunt, a friend's parent, etc. To be honest, it's no different than the way we do things: you get an expert opinion, then you may bounce that off your circle of peers at work or other people you know in that field. We parents just have this problem where we live under the illusion it would be any different with our kids. I've had it, my parents certainly had it, pretty much every parent I know does this. It's something that in recent years I've really started to exorcise from myself. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Maybe this is sexist, but I do find it seems to be easier for dads to do this than for moms. I don't know why, though. It seems most the moms I know get dragged into this conclusion kicking and screaming and resentful. But, just as we would tell a blind person they can be independent, I would say it's equally possible for a woman as well as a man to assert her rational self over the emotions, and just realize that it'll be fine if the kiddo picks it up from a friend's parent or an older relative. And, along with it, to refrain from the childish "I told you so," responses, which are a bit unbecoming of rational thinking adults.
The tough part now is between now and when your kid gets it, though. And, had you not brought it up to him to begin with, I believe the other influence would be equally impossible. After all, you're the one bringing it up now, then down the road somebody less attached to the situation is going to confirm what you already said, and it will click. It's a combined effort, no matter what our illusions of lone ranger parenting might be.
Well, we got the report card and he got a 90 in math. He wrote a letter to his teacher asking for extra credit. He did the work and got a 100 on it so I guess she brought up his grade. I wouldn't expect that in the hire grades though.
I have noticed a drastic improvement in his work so something must have clicked. I think the threat of losing the TAG class and having a B got his attention. His attitude is improving as well. Looks like we're on the right track for now. Onto the next hurdle we go. lol
Gotta love the bumpy road of parenting.
I was this child. I was in the gifted and talented program as we called it then, and it was a few grades ahead of the normal classes. I thrived.
Even now in college, if I'm in a 101 level class, I do terrible work. But when I'm in a 440 level class, I thrive. Its a curse of intelligence, if I may be conceited for a moment.
One thing I would urge away from though, is to assume your child is depressed. So many children, especially intelligent ones like your son, are assumed to be depressed about one thing or another. A lot of people say, "Oh little johnny's grades slipped, I wonder what he's depressed about now." Depression has become such a big word in our society that it has become the band aid we slap on everything.
Yes, your son may be sad about your guide dog going back. But that does not mean he's depressed. He's a kid, and he's sad. Kids are distracted so easily that it probably doesn't even effect him now.
Remember when you were a kid, and you skinned your knee, and five minutes later you'd forgotten it even happened? Kids recover so easily it amazes us. What we see as being terribly important, barely even phases them.
So, in conclusion, I have a few suggestions. First, talk to his teacher to see if she can give him some more difficult work to do. Common classes are so tedious when you already know the stuff they're teaching, it may just be he needs his interest sparked again. Two, see about testing him out of the grade. There's really no point in him being in a class he doesn't need to be. If he's already passed a third grade level, he may need to be in the fourth grade. See if the school will let him do that.
Next, and don't hate me for this, pay him. It has been proven that children who get paid for good grades do substantially better. Even if its five dollars for every A, its an insentive.
Think about it. He works day in and day out, scribbling down what they tell him too, and all he gets is a piece of paper with an A on it. Not something a kid cares about. Sure, he gets to see you happy, but you're almost always happy I assume. You treat him well no matter what, and the threat of a grounding only goes so far.
That five dollars in his pudgy little hand will go a lot farther than a piece of paper with an A on it. Kids love money, they don't really care about grades. Try it.
I hope this helps.
Hi there, and thanks.
Yep, he already gets $5 per a so he was a happy little camper this weekend. lol
I also agree with what you said about depression. While he may have been sad at the time and it may have been temporarily distracting to him, he's certainly gotten over it. He'll mention the dog every now an then but he's a ridiculously happy little kid 99 percent of the time.
Well I was never in the gifted classes but I definitely went throug what your son seems to be going through. But they never really tried the incentive ting which might have helped me in the lonterm. It was always constantly hearing what wouldhappen if I didn't manage to improve my grades and almost never what could happen if I did. I especially had this problem in Math, andI think I know where that came from. Some of you may have heard me talk in other threads about my time at the Overbrook Educational Center in Philadelphia, Pensylvania. Granted I don't know if things have changed in the twenty-odd years since I've been there. But when I was there they were all about mainstreaming handicapped kids. Now I'm all for that, but it has to be done well and in this case I firmly believe it wasn't. What they would do was put you in a class and give you the absolute minimum amount of assistive tech or material that they could get away with, then just expect you to magically eep up with the rest of the class. And god forbid you should actually have trouble with a subject because their response usually wasn't conducive to getting it right. In fact tey actually threatened my mom wit expelling my sister ad I simply because we didn't get the grades they expected, even though we weren't flunking.
Bryan, I wasn't aware that you went there. Your perspective is interesting. I have friends who went there, and they tell me that the education they got there was a joke. They may be all about mainstreaming, but the blind kids were held to a lower standard than the sighted kids. The work they had to do was a lot easier than the work that was given to the sighted kids.
Well we agree about the education being a joke. But I didn't notice my work being any diferent from the rest of my class. Then again that was the first time I'd really been mainstreamed so that's probably not all that surprising. But even if as you said they were giving me and the other blind kids in my class easier work it still didn't help when you had difficulties with a given subject. Because their response was along the lines of too bad. Work harder. I think it was at least five years after I left Overbrook before I could hear the word Math without completely freezing up. And even today it's still more or less my worst subject. And I think my time at Overbrook is at least in part to blame for that.
you know, I was this kid, exactly me, domestic Goddess. I was never in any honors, gifted or accelerated program I wrecked it too soon I was just seen as a not too good student because I got bored and misbehaved in elementary school, in middle school I did it for piety to my parents and then finally got it in high school but how? well school still bores me and it did when I first started. my friend got me in to political theory at 15 a man I randomly met. I can't thank him enough and philosophy. You know, I never get bored because of that, it always captures my interest, it always pulls me to it. Well, I realized this because it made me think more, it challenged me more. I suppose they didn't see it in middle school because I got my school work done averagely and that was it! nothing else I spent my other time doing other things but still got bored. but how? what was wrong what did I do then? in 10th grade after I met this guy I started to think and in 11th or 12th grade I call it anchoring myself. I chose to not look surface level as the class did I looked deeper I wrote papers that were much lengthier, that was more then I was required. I looked in to all sorts of scientific journals, I studied skepticism in global warming for fun, studied political theory on the side, read volumes of history books for fun, then I applied this in school. one of my anchors was to pay attention to everything in class so I could criticize the teachers and argue with them that was a focus I developed and whatever they studied I delved in to academia listened to everything they said and asked for the scientific. the homework was fun because I brought other stuff in, I wasn't just talking about the civil war in a summarize the causes of the civil war, I brought in absolutely new stuff, neither the teacher nor the book covered more precise stats, truly college level stuff. always criticized for doing this you're doing work that is not needed everyone said to me. If I didn't, well, then homework wouldn't be interesting anymore, nore classes, and I sat there after class at lunches and stuff going back and forth with teachers asking them technical questions. I found out maybe it didn't have to be boring and if it was spelling I think for a third grader it's much more fun to apply concepts and study spellling. I didn't just read shakespeare, I studied the old english I wanted to read chaucer and still need to get around to it but it doesn't really interest me anymore. I didn't just learn about government and what it was they wanted me to learn,no, I went out to do extensive research got on here on skype on twitter started debating with people. my spanish teacher says still to me, slow down this is stuff you will learn later and my response is no, I can't if I do I'd get bored. so maybe try that find anchors that your son is interested in and have him focus on it, ask him what in school he finds so interesting, I had to ask myself that I asked so what interests me in school, is there one little single part I do? or do I want something more practical and what is that? and I answered, theory. is it being more practical, more theory, more exact stuff and what subject, apply it to other subjects is there something in life that could be applied to this which intrigues him? is there a way you can teach him a lot more in depth about the subjects in school he's learning? or have him do the research himself check out books on the library explaining multiplication maybe in a more scientific way and simplify for him but explain it to him at the same time. other stuff like that.